TV Interview - Sky News, Politics Now with Trudy Mcintosh

TRUDY MCINTOSH HOST: Well, we're joined now by the Veterans affairs and Defence Personnel Minister, Matt Keogh. Matt, thanks for your time today. This is a really important area to get this policy right. As you've seen, there has been a lot of backlash. We saw this in Question Times was a feature last week. Can you explain to viewers why are you proposing to have this $5,000 cap?

MATT KEOGH, MINISTER FOR VETERANS’ AFFAIRS AND DEFENCE PERSONNEL: So, what we announced in the budget was enhancements to allied health provision for our veteran community. What we are delivering is the biggest increase in fees being paid by DVA to allied health professionals that service our veteran community. That's really important because those allied health professionals and veterans had been telling us that it's becoming increasingly difficult to access allied health services because we weren't paying enough. So, we're trying to remedy that issue. The other thing we're trying to address is a change that was put in place by the previous government we where they required veterans to undertake what's called the treatment cycle. It meant to access allied health. They would have to see a GP to get a referral, but then every 12 sessions would have to go back to a GP to get another referral. It was quite onerous for veterans and it put a lot of pressure on our GPS as well. We're replacing that with an annual $5,000 allocation in terms of accessing allied health. Now, the median use of allied health by a veteran is about $1,900 a year, so well below that $5,000 allocation. But we've also been very clear that where a veteran has a clinical need to access more allied health services, that we will provide a way for them to be able to do that. We understand that that's very important to the veteran community to make sure they have access to the care that they need. And we're going to work collaboratively with the allied health professionals and the veteran community on developing how that system works so that it works without gaps, so that there's no gap in service delivery for our veterans, and also so that we've got clarity by the end of this year, a full six months before the system comes in place, from the first of July 2027, around how it works.

MCINTOSH: I want to dig through that, Matt, but first, when you talk about the increase, yes, an increase going in terms of the fees to Allied Health, but when you look at this over the budget papers, it says that this is also saving the budget $748 million. So, is this effectively an effort of trying to save money for the budget? Bottom line, off the back of veterans.

KEOGH: So, I think when you look at what we're delivering in the budget for veterans, you've got to look at all of the things that are there in the budget. So, we do expect that there will be some savings that come from where we are seeing inappropriate servicing by allied health professionals and a degree of fraud by allied health professionals by having …

MCINTOSH: But is that the extent of it? That the fraud matters more than …

KEOGH: No, it's not the extent of it. So, I do want to explain that very clearly. So, we do expect that there's some savings, but we're investing from that nearly $170 million into those increases in fees. In addition to that, we are estimating that in just this coming year alone, we will be expending an additional $800 million on providing medical and support services to the veteran community. And when you look at what we are delivering as a government, this year, we'll be providing in terms of medical help and support services and compensation, some $15 billion of services compared to the last years of the previous government …

MCINTOSH: But on this cap, the cap doesn’t start until next July year.

KEOGH: That's right.

MCINTOSH: The savings you're saying from the cap are $748 million. In my view, when you look at that, if most veterans, as you're saying, don't go over the $5,000 at the moment, how does the government achieve those savings? Some people won't be getting services that they currently would?

KEOGH: It does mean that some veterans will not be provided with services that are not actually providing them a benefit or where we are seeing fraud. We're very clear about that. But what we're also very clear with the veteran community about is that where they have a clinical need to go above that $5,000 allocation, we're talking about one in 10 veterans here, then we will make sure that there is a way forward for them to be able to access those services. So, this is really important because the shadow … 

MCINTOSH: But that is not an insubstantial number. It’s one in ten, Matt. Last week I spoke to a veterans group who said that one in 10 is actually 25,000 people or so. That's a very big cohort that you're saying you'll have to pass an additional barrier, a bureaucratic one, we don't know the detail you're saying, so you're still consulting on that. Is your concern that some of these people who are vulnerable veterans might look at this new system and say, well, I can't go through that. And that's what Phil Thompson said to me yesterday. He's concerned that people who need this support above the cap won't ask for help and it could lead to them taking their own life.

KEOGH: Well, I think what's really concerning about what Phil Thompson's saying, there is the fear that he is creating in the community and it's irresponsible of him to do that. It's really irresponsible for him to do that, and there's a lot of academic research about that. But to be very clear, as I've said in many interviews over the last few weeks, since the budget was announced, and I've been clear with the veteran community and the many veterans that I've met with, both individually and as part of larger organisations, veterans right now have to go back to a GP every 12 sessions in order to continue to access allied health services. We're removing that. So, for around nine in 10 veterans, they will no longer have that onerous burden on top of them. But for those that do need more than $5,000 worth in a year, we will have a system in place to make sure that where they have the clinical need, they will still access the services. And we are going to design that system with them to make sure that it works properly. So, there should not be a need for people to be concerned about how this system will operate to support them. But it does make sure that we are removing bad actors from this system, that people are getting services that actually provide them with a benefit. And there is also a group of veterans out there that are getting some services that are not dealing with the underlying conditions. And this gives us a way of looking at that and making sure that veterans are getting the help that will actually make a difference for them, where they clearly do have severe need. And that's really important as well. We've got to look at it holistically. But when you look at that funding point, yes, there is a saving, but we're also actually spending even more, we're adding even more to the budget when we look at overall support for health just this year, let alone what happens in future years. So, I think it's got to be taken in that context, and Phil's being disingenuous about that.

MCINTOSH: I wanted to ask you that question about what that additional service will look like. Can you say at this stage, you're still doing the consultations, how easy will it be for someone who does need support over the cap to get it?

KEOGH: So, we're going to look at veterans and their needs, you know, on an individual basis, because different people have different combinations. You've got some veterans that understandably, have very complex needs, because they've got multiple different conditions that require access to multiple different types of allied health services. And we need to look at those in, say, a different way to where, because a veteran might have a particular set of surgeries in a particular year, they need some additional allied health services in that year to support them. We will be improving the MyService online portal so veterans themselves will be able to track their usage and understand what they're accessing and what that's costing, so they can see that. And we'll put in place processes so that they can early enough be able to get approval so there's no delay or gap in the service delivery that they need. We've been very clear, if you look at everything we're doing, implementing the Royal Commission recommendations, making sure we're looking at a broader wellbeing outlook for our veterans, and this is part of that, improved access to allied health, making sure we're finding and seeing those veterans where they might need additional assistance or treatments that are not properly being serviced by just having lots of access to allied health care, but may need other treatments and support as well. This is part of delivering on that better outcome for our veterans.

MCINTOSH: As a part of this consultation, are you committing today that you have an open mind to what you hear from veterans? Are you open to walking away from this cap entirely, or are you saying that this will be the path you go down?

KEOGH: I have a very open mind with working with veterans to make sure that this system works well to deliver for the healthcare needs that they have. But don't overlook how this makes it so much easier for nine out of 10 veterans as well, by removing that treatment cycle. And this enables us to make that investment in improving and increasing the amount we're paying to allied health professionals so they can continue to provide service to our veterans instead of the threat that we've been receiving that people will start walking away from supporting our veterans, which clearly have need and we want to make sure they continue to get support.

Open Arms – Veterans & Families Counselling provides 24/7 free confidential crisis support for current and ex-serving ADF personnel and their families on 1800 011 046 or the Open Arms website. Safe Zone Support provides anonymous counselling on 1800 142 072. Defence All-Hours Support Line provides support for ADF personnel on 1800 628 036 or the Defence Health Portal. Defence Member and Family Helpline provides support for Defence families on 1800 624 608