Radio Interview - 6PR Perth Radio Mornings with Gary Adshead

E&OE TRANSCRIPT 
6PR PERTH RADIO 
MORNINGS WITH GARY ADSHEAD 
THURSDAY, 31 OCTOBER 2024

SUBJECTS: Qantas; Andrew Russell Living Centre; Housing; Peter Dutton’s Risky Nuclear Gamble.

GARY ADSHEAD, HOST: And good morning to you gentlemen, wherever you may be. Thanks very much for joining us.

MINISTER FOR VETERANS’ AFFAIRS AND DEFENCE PERSONNEL, MATT KEOGH: Good morning, Gary, Andrew. Listeners from Geelong.

ADSHEAD: Oh, okay.

SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE, ANDREW HASTIE: G'day Gary and Matt. And listeners from Mandurah.

ADSHEAD: Well played, mate. That traffic's still a problem, isn't it?

HASTIE: It is, mate. When you flood the Country with a lot of people in two years, roads get congested. That's a reality under Labor.

ADSHEAD: We're off flying start. And speaking of flying boys, I mean, what a week. Alright, I'm going to play you this. So, this is me talking to Joe Aston. He's formerly of the Australian Financial Review. He's written the book the Chairman's Lounge. It's the thing that started this controversy about, you know, the cosy relationship allegedly between the Prime Minister and Alan Joyce. So, this is Joe Aston, Monday. Have a listen.

[Excerpt begins]

ADSHEAD: How did the upgrades come about? You're suggesting that sometimes there were phone calls, mate.

JOE ASTON: Yeah, well, I'm absolutely saying that. And Albanese would contact Alan Joyce directly when he was travelling overseas on a private holiday. He would contact Alan Joyce directly and ask for those economy tickets to be magically converted into pointy end tickets. And if you're the CEO of a company and your Minister that regulates you, calls you up asking you for a favour, I mean, you're in an invidious position, really.

[Excerpt ends]

ADSHEAD: Alright, pretty clear cut. Why has it taken the Prime Minister almost a week to say that's not true?

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, the Prime Minister was very clear from the outset that any upgrades that he's received have been appropriately declared, but also wanted to confirm his understanding, which is absolutely the point that has been made yesterday, that all of his bookings have been done in the usual way that people make Qantas bookings. He hadn't had any contact with Joyce making any requests like that. And so this, this matters put to bed. But the real questions that need to be answered are the current Shadow Transport Minister. You know, there's been allegations raised about her this morning about her transparency. The Prime Minister has been very transparent about this. He's never not been transparent –

ADSHEAD: With all due respect, he hasn't. Because he was asked a pretty straightforward question. Have you ever phoned Alan Joyce? And he didn't know. He's waited a week to get his, you know, his communications audited.

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, and isn't that good that the Prime Minister is actually a diligent person and checks the records to make sure that his understanding was the correct one. And has provided that information and I think people would appreciate that he does those things properly.

ADSHEAD: Matt. Matt. If I'd called Alan Joyce and said, can you please get me an upgrade, I'm flying to London with the family, I would know about that. I would remember that. Why couldn't he. Why couldn't he just say no to the media that have been asking him the same question for the last three days?

MINISTER KEOGH: For exactly the reason that we saw when this was clarified last night. And the further questions that people wanted to raise is he wanted to make sure that everything that he understood it to be the case was the case. Because obviously, as you would appreciate, other people make bookings when Ministers, MPs, Prime Ministers are travelling. And he wanted to make sure that his understanding matched what others had been doing as well. And that was the case. And that's what he's been able to clarify yesterday. But the whole time, as he's always made clear, every upgrade that he's ever received has been declared and he was clear that he hasn't spoken to or engaged with Alan Joyce about seeking these upgrades that's been alleged. And that's really the end of this whole, whole matter. But there are still questions that need to be answered.

ADSHEAD: Yeah, there are and I'm going to get to it. No doubt about it. No doubt about it. And she's, you know, almost self-reported herself because she may have misspoken early on in the week, but is that the end of it Andrew Hastie?

HASTIE: I don't think, Gary. This allegation from Joe Aston strikes at the heart of the Prime Minister's credibility, his honesty and integrity, because, yes, he might have declared those flights, but it would be entirely improper for a Minister of the Crown, or indeed a Shadow Minister, to be soliciting free upgrades from the CEO of Qantas, which of course dominates the Australian market, would be completely improper. And that's what's at stake here. Did the Prime Minister contact Alan Joyce or any of his surrogates, people close to Alan Joyce, to make sure that he got upgraded? That would be entirely improper, which is why we're calling on the Prime Minister to refer himself to the NACC to put this to bed, because we're tying up Government resources, trying to do a historical study of the last 30 years of the Prime Minister's travel. People want Government to be working in their interests, not to be resolving questions around the Prime Minister's credibility. So, the best thing the Prime Minister could do at this point is refer himself to the NACC. I think that would be in the public interest. It would be in his interest. And the NACC was set up for this very sort of thing.

ADSHEAD: That's the National Anti-Corruption Commission that you're talking about there. Now, Peter Dutton, on the other hand, is he too cosy to Gina Rinehart? He's had to answer questions about flights that were provided by her this morning. Have a listen.

[Excerpt begins]

LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION, PETER DUTTON: In relation to the flight, to the Bali memorial service. We asked the Government for a RAAF flight. They played games and they didn't offer that flight. At that point, I think we had a charter estimate which was about $40,000 to fly from Rockhampton to Sydney and then back to Mackay. I thought that was very expensive. And the cheaper option for the taxpayer was for my office to speak to Mrs. Rinehart's office as to whether the plane might be available. That was at zero cost to the taxpayer. I don't think you'd get as clear a statement as that from the Prime Minister, but that's what happened.

[Excerpt ends]

ADSHEAD: Does that make Gina Rinehart obviously the mining billionaire, does that make her a benefactor for Peter Dutton? Does it, Andrew?

HASTIE: Look, I think Peter Dutton's made it very clear how that flight came about. He's declared it. He's gotten to the bottom of it. And that's very different to what the Prime Minister has done. He can't answer the question about whether he's been in contact with Alan Joyce over the years or people who work for Alan Joyce to get an upgrade, particularly when he was Minister of the Crown. So, this is a very different kettle of fish for Peter Dutton. He's come out clearly this morning. He's answered the question. We're still waiting on the –

ADSHEAD: It's cosiness, though, It's cosiness.

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, hang on, hang on. Andrew, you need to stop being. You need to be clear about this. The Prime Minister has answered the question. This issue has been answered.

ADSHEAD: Has he?

MINISTER KEOGH: And it has been resolved. So, you keep trying to create mud where this actually been answered.

HASTIE: Yeah, you know what, I wish -

MINISTER KEOGH: The questions that haven't been answered are about your Shadow Minister -

HASTIE: I wish - I wish the Prime Minister would be clear so we could talk about the housing shortage affecting Western Australians.

ADSHEAD: Well, we'll get to that. Did Bridget McKenzie go off half-cocked this week, Andrew?

HASTIE: Did she go off halfcocked? Look, she's being transparent herself and she's - she's getting to the bottom of her own records. It's important that on both sides of politics, that we are transparent. But let's be clear here. The Country's leader has answers to question, it's our Prime Minister. He is the big boss, the top dog, and he has questions to answer. And right now there is still a lack of clarity about whether or not he solicited upgrades from Alan Joyce or those close to him over the last 10 to 15 years. Those questions need to be answered.

ADSHEAD: Hey, gents. I suggested at the beginning of the week that people in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks because this could get very messy. I think I'm right. Are you guys all on the up in terms of upgrades from Qantas as far as you're concerned? Have you gone back through your records to see whether you've been bumped up the pointy end just because of who you are?

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, I have. I have received an upgrade. I've never, I didn't seek it. It was offered to me at the check in. And I think, you know, this happens to people who, all sorts of people that fly regularly. Sometimes that happens –

ADSHEAD: Doesn't happen to me, I don't think it happens to many of our listeners.

MINISTER KEOGH: And I get you're not flying regularly enough, Gary, but I think most Australians, if they're offered an upgrade, they will take that. And I, of course, declared that at the time.

ADSHEAD: Alright, but you'd never sought one out?

MINISTER KEOGH: No.

ADSHEAD: Alright, Andrew?

HASTIE: No, I've never sought - I have no contact with Alan Joyce. I've never sought out an upgrade. In fact, I upgraded myself last month, flying back from the United States, using my own points, as many Australians do, and that's how it should be done. And if it's done in any other way, it should be registered, which is the question around the Prime Minister's.

ADSHEAD: All right, I think we'll come. We'll take a break and I think probably where we're at now in this one is that Joe Aston, who was very deliberate in what he said to me and very specific about the information he had, probably needs to come back with something at this point in time. We'll wait and see, but if you guys just hang on there, it's 10:45.

[Ad break]

ADSHEAD: Hey, guys, there's a story. I know that you'd be aware of it, Matt, it's Jess Page is written in the West today. It's in relation to Kylie Russell, who we've spoken to a number of times on this program. Of course, she is the widow of someone that you may have crossed paths, I'm not sure, Andrew, but Andrew Russell was our first Defence Force fatality in the War in Afghanistan, 2002. Now she's saying that she's got this plan and it's sort of progressing. It's for the Andrew Russell Living Centre, it's for people in crisis who are veterans that need somewhere to go. She says she's got the money, she's satisfied with what she's got from the State Government through a Lotterywest Grant, but she's waiting on the Feds. Matt, firstly, I mean, is this something that you're going to support?

MINISTER KEOGH: So, I've met with Kylie and I've discussed the proposal that the RAAF association is putting forward for homeless veterans. And we're very supportive of these sorts of initiatives. In fact, we went to the election with a $30 million commitment nationally to support the establishment of veteran homelessness services. And not just around building homes that they can be placed in, but also funding the wraparound services to support those veterans to get back on their feet. And we've seen a number of models that are working quite well, including a service in South Australia which is also named after Andrew Russell, and they've been doing some really great work. The issue that we've confronted here, Gary, is that Andrew and his mates in the Senate, like Michaelia Cash, blocked the legislation to enable that funding. And so it was long delayed, which is very unfortunate. But we did open the grant opportunity for applicants in the middle of this year. That funding round closed in September and is now being assessed. So, there's absolutely a pathway towards funding that's being appropriately assessed before recommendations are made for Government. And we look forward to trying to progress that as soon as possible. And I think what Kylie and RAAFA are proposing is a great initiative, but we've obviously got to have proper processes for the allocation of Government funding. And it's just very sad that being able to get this money out the door to support these sorts of services nationally was held up by the Liberal Party and the Senate.

ADSHEAD: What do you say, Andrew?

HASTIE: Yeah, look, I think I've met with Kylie Russell before. She's a lovely person. She's got a heart for our veterans. Of course, we honour her late husband, Sergeant Andrew Russell, who gave his life for our Country in Afghanistan, and I'm very open about supporting her project. Something I'll have to take through Shadow Cabinet and of course, talk to the Shadow Veterans’ Minister, Barnaby Joyce, who sits in Shadow Cabinet, unlike Matt, who should sit in the Labor Cabinet, but doesn't, and we'll have a look at it. Paul Papalia yesterday got in contact with me advocating for Federal support. And so Matt, you're hearing it from me, Paps wants some support from you and let's see what we can do.

ADSHEAD: Ok, look, I'm a bit confused. You're talking about those processes that are required and I understand process, but, you know, the Prime Minister was only over here the other week. You know, he hands over $6 million to Telethon. What's the difference?

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, all these things go through under our Government, Gary, Government processes. And when it comes to grant funding for a commitment that we made at the last election to have a funding round that we would assess applications on their merit nationally and there's a process for that to occur, we're not just going to cut through these things and then have someone say, “oh, because that program's in WA, the Minister favoured it”, or anything like that. I don't want to put any programs at risk from funding because of those sorts of things that could be raised. We're going through a proper process of assessment. This could have happened a lot faster if the Housing Australia Future Fund legislation hadn't been held up in the Senate. But I think people expect us to have a proper process. But there is a funding program that is available because we really recognise the need to support veterans that are homeless or at risk of homelessness. We know that they are more likely to experience homelessness than the general population. We've got some great models that are operating around Australia that can be expanded or replicated in other places. And as I said, I've met with RAAFA many times, I've met with Kylie, Paul has raised these issues with me as well, and I'm really happy that as a Government, we took to the last election a program to fund these sorts of services and now we're working through that process. Once we were finally able to get the legislation through the Parliament after it had been blocked by the Libs.

ADSHEAD: Andrew Hastie, are we going to know what your policy is on nuclear energy before Christmas?

HASTIE: Yeah, we've, we've. Well -

ADSHEAD: The costing, the timeline, how much?

HASTIE: The timeline for the costings will be announced in due course and that's a decision that will be taken by the Leader of the Opposition, Peter Dutton, and the Shadow Energy Minister, Ted O'Brien. But people will know in due course. Absolutely. It's an important thing and we'll make that clear. I'm relaxed about that. You know, Matt and his colleagues are all in a ladder about it, but it'll come out. I think they realise that the Australian people are pretty open to nuclear power. They want reliable, they want affordable, they want baseload power that delivers them electricity and it also keeps emissions low. And so Labor's Opposition to this is completely irrational. It's ideological, it's a hangover from the 1980s and the rest of the world is progressing and Labor wants to go backwards in time. So, it's a pretty clear cut choice for people. If you want to have cheap, reliable, low emissions, baseload power through nuclear power, your Coalition will deliver that. We'll release our costing soon, but that'll come out over the next couple of months.

ADSHEAD: Matt Keogh it's not clear cut if we don't have the proof as to what this is all going to cost, is it?

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, this is a reckless proposal. At the moment, we don't have what the Opposition think it will cost. We know from experience around the world that these programs end up costing many multiples of what people think they will cost and take much longer to deliver. But we also know you've got the head of Synergy in Western Australia who's got great responsibility for the actual generation of a lot of our energy and understands our network in Western Australia, which is different to the rest of the Country, saying actually nuclear wouldn't work in our network. The way our network's configured, the amount of energy we require. This is a reckless proposal by Peter Dutton. It's one of those, it sounds good when I say it, but when you actually get into the detail, whether it's about cost, how long it would take to deliver, what it would mean for power bills, how much water it's going to consume, where are you actually going to put it? Because the site that the Opposition are talking about in Collie is actually already being used for something else. And then, you know, the Leader of the Opposition goes to Collie but won't actually talk to anyone in Collie about his proposal. I mean, we're here on Halloween and the thing that Peter Dutton is most afraid of is Collie locals. That is a pretty bad indictment of a reckless proposal for nuclear energy.

ADSHEAD: Ten seconds, Andrew, go on.

HASTIE: Yeah, well, look, you know, Anthony Albanese wants - Anthony Albanese wants to deindustrialise this country. He's going to take us to 82% renewables mostly, if not all made in China by 2030. It'll make us weaker as a country. It'll deindustrialise us. We'll see the decline and an extinction of advanced manufacturing under Labor. We don't want that. We need to be self-reliant. We need to be able to make things. And it won't happen under Labor's renewables plan.

ADSHEAD: All right, I'm going to leave it there, guys. Thanks very much for joining us. I really appreciate your time.

MINISTER KEOGH: Thanks.

HASTIE: Thank you.

END

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