Radio Interview - 6PR Perth Radio Mornings with Gary Adshead

E&OE TRANSCRIPT  
6PR PERTH RADIO  
MORNINGS WITH GARY ADSHEAD
THURSDAY, 17 OCTOBER 2024

SUBJECTS: WA Shipbuilding; Housing; Cost of Living; Birth Rates; Labour Force Data; Immigration.

GARY ADSHEAD, HOST: Welcome to the 6PR studio, guys. How are you? You're both -

MINISTER FOR VETERANS’ AFFAIRS AND DEFENCE PERSONNEL, MATT KEOGH: Great to be with you.

ADSHEAD: It’s nice to have you here. Yeah it is, I mean that genuinely. It's nice to have you in the flesh right here in front of us. So, welcome aboard.

SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE, ANDREW HASTIE: Good to be here, Gary.

ADSHEAD: But now you would have had a very busy day yesterday. Did you get involved in that? Do they invite you to those ones, mate? The AUKUS, obviously, the press conference around the massive spend that's coming in relation -

HASTIE: Of course not, no. They drop us the slops, basically. They let us know that an announcement's been made and we respond. And we have responded.

ADSHEAD: I know, I know -

MINISTER KEOGH: We give Andrew all the care and attention that he gave us.

ADSHEAD: I said to the Defence Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister yesterday, it was kind of like the piece of the jigsaw puzzle on this that was still required because I remember going, you know, you would have been there when Scomo was announcing the $4.3 billion for-

HASTIE: I was there, yeah.

ADSHEAD: For all of the hub and the docking and all this rest of it. But it never sort of eventuated from there on in. Now we've.

HASTIE: Well we changed Governments, that's why. And Labor haven't committed to it.

MINISTER KEOGH: And you didn't put any money in the Budget. But we have. So, it's okay.

ADSHEAD: Okay, $127 million -

HASTIE: Over three years are pittance. An absolute pittance.

MINISTER KEOGH: Let’s be very clear about this because Andrew's a bit confused. I saw his press release. So, $127 million to start the work. So, there's planning, but there's also the enabling works. But this is a multi-tens of billion dollar programme.

HASTIE: How much? How much, how long?

MINISTER KEOGH: Obviously, the exact price, Andrew, is depending on the planning. But the key thing is, unlike yourselves, you announced AUKUS but then didn't do anything about it. We actually developed the plan and budgeted for all of this. All of the enabling works that need to happen with AUKUS are in the Budget. And so the money is there. The detailed planning happens. Now, Gary, you were talking about the dry dock or the docking that was announced by Scomo back when they were in Government. They didn't actually know what they wanted to do. They knew they needed a dock, but they didn't know what that dock was going to be. And they announced $4.3 billion, but they didn't know what it was going to do, nor did they put it in the Budget. What we have announced yesterday is a game changer, because it's not just about AUKUS, this is about delivering on continuous shipbuilding here in Western Australia, as well as the ongoing sustainment for nuclear propelled submarines. And what that means in terms of employment, 10,000 people in the construction and then 3000 of that in ongoing jobs, and not just ongoing jobs for like, a decade. We're talking ongoing jobs for generations to come. And it'll see defence industry become one of the biggest industry sectors in Western Australia, joining the resources sector, joining the agriculture sector. And what's really important about that is it means Western Australia moves from being a state that's been, as it has been for so long, a primary industry led, export led minerals and resources, agriculture economy. It diversifies, but it also brings complexity, because this is about high end construction work, this is about manufacturing, this is about creating that complexity in our economy, diversifying the economy and for generations to come. It really is a game changer, but also very importantly, it's delivering the very much needed Defence capability that our Australian Defence Force need.

ADSHEAD: Ok, what do you and don't you agree with those statements Andrew Hastie?

HASTIE: He's pretty much taken my talking points. Cause I am excited about AUKUS. I'm excited about the Henderson Precinct becoming a hub for continuous shipbuilding. I want to reindustrialize this country because the lesson out of Ukraine and Israel is that if you can't produce your own munitions, your own weapons and armaments, you're really stuck in a crisis. Okay, so we need to reindustrialize Australia for our security. I welcome this investment. My problem is that it's a drop in the ocean. There's no real timeline and there's no real sense of the total cost. They said billions of dollars yesterday well give us a figure $127 million over three years. Matt's had his go on that. I think it's still too little. And so Matt's got great plumage along with the Deputy Prime Minister, but they're all feathers and no meat.

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, Andrew's wrong about timelines, because we've already announced we've got rotational forces coming through from 2027, and then we will be taking on Virginia-class submarines to be operated by Australia. And so the agreements that we've got in place with the US and the UK set out the timelines that we need to be delivering the capability of doing depot level maintenance doing, having the contingency docking arrangements, but also bringing on the construction of the frigates that are going to be happening in Western Australia along with the landing craft. So, actually, these timelines are quite short. Some of them are longer, like, we don't need to start the depot level maintenance for some time yet, but the planning needs to happen now. And so you will see that construction work rolling out soon, but for a period of time, as the milestones that are set as part of AUKUS and also the shipbuilding plan are delivered. And when we think it's not just about AUKUS, it's this continuous shipbuilding plan. Again, the previous Government talked a big game about a shipbuilding plan that never got released. I heard about that shipbuilding plan at multiple elections and we never got it. We've released it –

HASTIE: Two and a half years ago since we changed Governments.

MINISTER KEOGH: Okay.

HASTIE: Two and a half years ago.

MINISTER KEOGH: And this is doing it.

ADSHEAD: This is a win for Western Australia - this won't come out right - over South Australia, but you know the debate -

MINISTER KEOGH: Well South Australia is also building the submarines, so they are getting a good whack of investment and will have jobs as well. So, there's no loser.

ADSHEAD: The care, the maintenance, that’s all now going to be on us. And that's the way it should be.

HASTIE: And, Gary, look, I share Matt's excitement because Perth is about to become the centre of Defence policy for this country. AUKUS is huge. The general purpose frigate build is huge at Henderson. There's jobs for generations, as Matt has said. What we need to do now is build a labour force, invest properly, which is why we're calling on more money.

ADSHEAD: That’s hard, the labour force.

HASTIE: It's going to be really hard because there's a scarcity of labour. The unemployment figures are 4.1% today. It's very hard to compete with the resources sector, which is paying good money to a lot of people who live down our way, down in the Peel region and elsewhere. So, yes, it's going to be competitive, but we want patriots, we want people who love their country, who want jobs in heavy industry or the supply chains that will support AUKUS and our future ships. And we want people who love their country and want to make us stronger and more secure. And that's the pitch.

ADSHEAD: 133 882. By the way, if you guys out there want to have your say particularly, if you live down that way and you're wondering how this might look for you, a lot of people, you know, a lot of people out there are sort of asking those kind of those basic questions. Like, well, gee whiz, you're going to have all these people coming to Western Australia, where are they going to live. So, when you talk about the Defence personnel that will be coming from the US example, are we going to have to build a new base for them all to be housed in, that sort of thing?

MINISTER KEOGH: No. So, we're working with the United States now. In fact, last week I made an announcement about Defence Housing Australia requiring access to the agreements we've signed off for 550 homes. And there's a further agreements to come, which is about providing housing for our Defence Force personnel. Which means –

ADSHEAD: New builds?

MINISTER KEOGH: Yep, new builds, so that they are. So, they are able to access housing through DHA, which means they're not competing in the private rental market. That's really important. And we're working with the United States on developing the plans on how we provide the housing for the visiting forces as well. And they'll be out in the community, they're not all going to be housed in a base. They will be bringing families, some of them as well. That's actually really great for the WA economy. So, even though there'll be less people than, say, we have the Marines based in Darwin, there'll be more people in total because of the families. That will be a huge investment into the WA economy. They'll be spending in Western Australia, they'll be engaging in our communities. That is a positive thing. And when you think about where do we find these jobs? If there's one thing Western Australia has always delivered on, if you think about the mining boom in the 60’s, you think about the mining boom we saw in the early 2000’s, you think about the Northwest Shelf, think about the Gold Rush. We find the people, and the people come to Western Australia from around Australia because they know that these are good, secure jobs. And when it comes to competing with the resources industry, one of the things we see with the resources industry, particularly around life stage cycles, is there's a point where some people say, I just don't want to do FIFO anymore, or I need a period of time around not doing FIFO well, you can drive in and out to work at Henderson, you can sleep in your bed every night and you get to do high paid, high end, advanced manufacturing work. So, it's a really good offer. And Western Australia has always delivered when it's come to these big projects going forward, and I think Western Australia will continue to do that and we should always be backing WA.

ADSHEAD: Do you think we'll be right in terms of that, Andrew? In terms of the sort of the labour that we need and also the accommodation and the logistics that are required to get these people into WA?

HASTIE: Look, I think we can do it, but it needs leadership from the Government. It needs leadership from the Federal Government. And that's where I've been critical. I don't think Richard Marles, the Defence Minister, has been making the case for AUKUS as a nation building project that requires young Australians from primary, secondary and tertiary levels of education to be getting ready for it. So, there's more leadership, but we also need leadership at the state level as well. And I think Roger Cook, the Premier, is asleep at the wheel on AUKUS. He could take a lot of lessons from the South Australian Premier, Malinauskas, who's done a fantastic job advocating for his state, for AUKUS particularly. And I think, in fact, there should be a Cabinet Minister with a portfolio of AUKUS sitting at the table.

ADSHEAD: Papalia essentially got that. I mean, you couldn't find a more enthusiastic Minister in his defence than Paul Papalia when it comes to talking about Defence.

HASTIE: Yeah, Paps –

ADSHEAD: You know him obviously.

HASTIE: I know Paps. He's a good guy. He’s spread across a range of different portfolios. He was my pick for Premier, by the way. I'm disappointed he didn't get up, but he’s spread across too many portfolios. And what you need someone, you need someone who's dedicated to AUKUS, who has an access all areas, has the authority, Premier, because if the State doesn't get on with the job, this thing is at risk, I'm telling you right now. And it's on the State Government to get along and get this thing moving.

MINISTER KEOGH: And I get for Andrew, he's an external observer now in Opposition. He doesn't see this close up –

ADSHEAD: Be careful, be careful.

MINISTER KEOGH: I've spoken to the Premier every day this week. We are engaged so closely and the agreement that was signed on Monday that was part of the announcement is about that even closer relationship between the State and the Commonwealth, delivering not just on the Defence precinct, but also the skills development required in Western Australia. And if you look at the work that the State Government is doing with South Metro TAFE, making sure that the courses that are needed to create the skilled workforce that we need are available, and the funding from the Commonwealth to provide fee-free TAFE, the encouragement that is happening there in school and that is happening, that's what is actually occurring right now and we are working very closely together.

ADSHEAD: Alright, we might change subject in a sec, but if anyone wants to call through on that one 133 882 it is a quarter to ten. Andrew Hastie, Matt Keogh in the studio with me. Back soon.

[Ad Break]

ADSHEAD: That makes you want to dance, doesn't it? Matt Keogh, that one. We'll come back to it in a minute of course -

MINISTER KEOGH: It's almost as good as April Sun.

ADSHEAD: Yeah, good. Copacabana's been in the news this week, so we'll come back to that in a sec. But Corey's on the line. He's got a bit of a question. I think both of you could probably help him with this one. G'day Corey.

CALLER, COREY: Morning fellas. My son has just started at TS Anzac as a Navy cadet. He wants to. He's only 13, wants to become a welder. And the jobs that we're talking about, are they in the actual services themselves or is it more in the supply chain?

MINISTER KEOGH: Sure.

COREY: Do I kind of, like, try and direct him towards the actual Navy service? I think he'd be a good fit there. He's, I love him as my son, but he's easily led. So, I think the discipline of a military service would be a good thing. But. But I'm also thinking, is it. Is it more the supply chain, the private companies surrounding?

ADSHEAD: We’ve got two perfect people to talk about this.

MINISTER KEOGH: Before Andrew tries to dissuade you from the Navy, encourages you into the Army, I will say there are absolutely roles like that in the Navy. But the jobs that we have just been talking about are in defence industry, in doing that sustainment and construction work, that's in private industry. And we're working closely with defence industry around the Defence precinct that's being created to do this work. So, both are opportunities. If you're looking at Defence across the Defence Force, we have literally hundreds of different role types across so many different things that are not what you might think of as the traditional Defence roles, whether they're being a diesel mechanic, a welder like you were talking about, doing the work in cyber and space, as well as infantry, and more traditional roles, which Andrew can talk about in a lot more detail than I can. But I would certainly encourage your son and yourself with him to look at those sorts of roles on the ADF Careers website. And I encourage anyone who might be interested to look at the ADF Careers website. You can see all those different roles available, but there's also going to be, in terms of the ongoing work, those 3000 jobs we were talking about. They are in defence industry, principally when it comes to the submarines through ASC, which is the Government owned submarine sustainment operation, which operates down in Henderson, and so absolutely should direct him to look at those as well.

ADSHEAD: But doing time in the Navy, Andrew, would not be a problem in terms of going forward into the careers that are going to be available.

HASTIE: Yeah. Corey, whether your son ends up in the Royal Australian Navy or in Defence industry, both would be very, very important and consequential careers for a young Australian like your son. I'd encourage him to look at both. We want patriots serving in both sides of industry and Defence. And I'm really excited about a naval career. You know, if he joins the submarines, he could spend a career living out of Perth, working in the US and the UK, and so too with Defence industry. I had a friend who's a parent on my son's soccer team. He inquired about a job with AUKUS and straight away he got a call back and was offered six months in Hawaii, learning how to work with the Americans to come back here and have a permanent job. So, I think travel is on the horizon for your son, whether he goes into industry or Navy. But both options are super exciting and I'd encourage him to look at them.

MINISTER KEOGH: And can I just say, also, you know, we like people to stay in the Defence Force for as long as they can. But many people start careers in our Defence Force, whether it's Navy, Army or Air Force, and have very successful careers and build up those trade skills and qualifications and then move into defence industry later, continuing to support the work of our Defence Force from the industrial end. And that's something he should think about, too, because people have long careers and they can have multiple stages in those careers as well.

ADSHEAD: He's on the right path, Corey, as long as he doesn't get easily led off that path. So, just make sure you keep him in check on that one. Hey, fellas, I've got to ask you. Look, it's been controversial to talk about it on radio because some people say, oh, the Prime Minister buying a house, that's his business. Who cares? But then, of course, there's the optics of it and whether or not the timing of it was good. I mean, what. Okay, Matt, I mean, were you concerned when you saw this story start to emerge that in the middle of a housing crisis, our PM has just bought a $4.3 million house in Copacabana, NSW?

MINISTER KEOGH: I really do think, you know, if people, whether they are the Prime Minister, whether they're me or Andrew or people in our communities, are deciding to sell a house or to buy a house, it's really up to them. And people will buy into housing at whatever price point works for them. And we totally understand. And I know Andrew and I, both speaking to people in our community, feel those pressures. And it's why we've been doing a lot of work as a Government around grocery prices, around tax cuts, around childcare fee relief, around bringing the rebates on energy prices, trying to meet those cost of living pressures, because we do understand that point deeply. I think from a Western Australian point of view, sometimes that figure looks dramatically out of, say, whack for WA housing prices. But you do need to realise NSW have a very different housing market to us.

ADSHEAD: Does he look out of touch? Come on. Does he look out of touch? Now, is it hard for a PM who's just purchased that kind of cliffside mansion overlooking the water to say, I know you're doing it tough, I understand. What do you think?

HASTIE: Well, Gary, the backdrop is of course, we're facing an acute housing shortage at the moment and particularly here in WA. I was on a walk yesterday morning with my wife Ruth, and we were passing through Halls Head and on the grass area just above the beach there, there was a woman with two City of Mandurah Rangers and there was a tent and I assumed that they were moving her on. And this is something that we're seeing far too often. People living out of their cars, living out of tents. I have stories from principals of kids living in caravans and in tents and people are doing it really tough. People living in backyards of their friend's place. We've got an acute housing shortage. And people who do have a property, whether they're renting or paying a mortgage, they've suffered twelve interest rate rises in the UK, the US, Canada, New Zealand, interest rates are of course coming off. Our inflation here is sticky and it's staying high. And that's a problem. And so that's the backdrop. Right, so what the Prime Minister did, private transaction, above board, totally legal, but I'll let his colleagues who are backgrounding against him to the media, I'll let their judgement stands. They think it's out of touch and it's a problem internal to the Labor Party.

ADSHEAD: As a Prime Minister. He's got a house, we pay for it -

MINISTER KEOGH: So let’s also be clear, Andrew is talking about sticky inflation. Inflation is now half what it was when we came into Government. So, the work, the things we've been doing about properly managing, you know, the Budget circumstance, delivering on two surpluses, bringing, doing the work around cost of living to bring down inflation, it's still hard out there, but we've halved inflation in the time that we have been in Government. And when we talk about housing, we have multiple measures, including Help to Buy in the Senate right now, legislation to help with housing access, affordable housing being blocked by the Liberal Party. So, I'm glad that Andrew is concerned about it, but he could also get his colleagues in the Senate to pull their finger out and actually pass the legislation.

HASTIE: And Gary, if I could just tell you what else I'm concerned about. It's immigration. We've had 1.4 people, 1.4 million people come to Australia since March of 2022. 1.4 million people. That's the size of the city of Adelaide. Took me an hour and 40 minutes to get from my front door down in Mandurah to your studio this morning. And I do it, Gary, because I love you. Okay, but it's an hour and 40 -

ADSHEAD: Can you do it later in the next couple of weeks? Give people more time to get up here -

MINISTER KEOGH: Thanks Gary, appreciate it.

HASTIE: And Australians, Australians across the country, but particularly here in Perth, are feeling the crunch from it, from immigration, which is happening under Labor. It's forcing up the cost of housing because more people are competing for a scarce number of houses. It's driving inflation as well, and it's tough. So, there's a number of things that under Anthony Albanese have happened which are not good for this country. And so I'm not so much worried about his housing purchase. Whatever the optics of that is, there's plenty of good reasons to change Government when the election is called next year.

MINISTER KEOGH: I do like the way Andrew selectively uses immigration when he talks about, oh, from 2022, bearing in mind that, of course, with COVID under his Government, there was virtually no immigration. But what's happened in the last year is that immigration has actually slowed down. The things that we've been doing to curb that are working.

ADSHEAD: The birth rates are a worry. On the flip side of that, at the moment, it's never been lower since European settlement, so we're going to talk about that a bit later.

HASTIE: Well, housing, if people can't get a home, they delay family formation and then.

MINISTER KEOGH: You should pass the legislation Andrew.

HASTIE: People end up having kids later in life, which means they have less kids, which is why our fertility replacement rate is dropping.

ADSHEAD: Albo's got four spare bedrooms. He'll be fine. He'll be able to house them. Guys, a pleasure. Thanks very much for coming in. Next time we see you, it might be around sort of 10:30-ish or something on that tape. We'll see if we can make it work.

MINISTER KEOGH: We wait further advisement Gary.

HASTIE: We'll do brunch mate.

ADSHEAD: See, I can't think of brunch. I just thought of that I can’t do brunch anymore. That's a point.

MINISTER KEOGH: We'll bring you in some food.

ADSHEAD: Three minutes to ten.

END

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