Radio Interview - 6PR Perth Radio - Mornings with Gary Adshead

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
6PR PERTH RADIO
MORNINGS WITH GARY ADSHEAD
TUESDAY, 10 SEPTEMBER 2024

SUBJECTS: Final Report from the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide.

HOST, GARY ADSHEAD: All right. We did speak yesterday ahead of the tabling of a Report into suicide in the Defence Force, and it has - well, it's a very dense and long document. It's volumes and volumes. 122 recommendations. Someone who'll be poring over all of it as we speak would be Matt Keogh, the Minister for Veterans' Affairs, who joins me on the line. Thanks for your time, Minister.

MINISTER FOR VETERANS’ AFFAIRS AND DEFENCE PERSONNEL, MATT KEOGH: Morning, Gary. Great to be with you.

ADSHEAD: Ok, off the back of this and some of the recommendations that are there, do you accept that you need to start again and do away with the Department of Veterans’ Affairs? Has it failed?

MINISTER KEOGH: Oh, no, I don't think that's the case at all. And that's not what the Royal Commission's asking for either Gary, as we're going through the 122 recommendations, seven volumes and over 3100 pages, the Royal Commission actually acknowledges that DVA has improved, and that's good, but we don't shy away from the fact that there have certainly been problems and there's certainly need for more improvement. We completely understand, and the Royal Commission's identified some areas for improvement in its recommendations and in the content of the volumes of the Report. And that's what we're getting through now, as well as all of the recommendations, to make sure that we can respond swiftly to what's been recommended.

ADSHEAD: Now, one recommendation out of it was the notion that you now need a new inquiry into sexual violence in the military. Will you do that?

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, I'm not going to piecemeal my way through each of the 122 recommendations yet. We only received the Report yesterday and we've got to work through this as a Government. I've got to work with the Deputy Prime Minister, the Minister for Defence, the Attorney-General and others in putting together the Government's response. But certainly we understand that this is an important issue and there's many other important issues that are raised in the Royal Commission Report. The call there in the recommendation for an inquiry demonstrates just how serious an issue this is and we take it very seriously and we'll be taking it seriously in developing our response as well.

ADSHEAD: Did that surprise you, though, that there was that sort of recommendation around a new inquiry into that specific type of subject matter.

MINISTER KEOGH: Look, there's a number of areas in the recommendations where the Royal Commission has recommended there be some further inquiries undertaken into particular discrete areas. There's this one into sexual misconduct. There's one into the military discipline system, for example. They clearly have determined that more work needs to be done to unpack those issues. And we don't want to see those sorts of issues happening in our Defence Force. We want our Defence Force to be an employer of choice. It's why when we were implementing the respect at work recommendations which apply under employment law, and employment law generally doesn't apply to the Defence Force in the same way, we made sure that there was a specific respect at work regime put in place for the Defence Force. Now, that only came into effect at the end of last year when those respect at work reforms were introduced. But it was a system specific to the Defence Force and one that operated outside the chain of command. But we understand what the Royal Commission is wanting us to look through with the recommendation that it's made. And as with all of the recommendations, we take that recommendation very seriously.

ADSHEAD: Because of course, you know, from the Government's point of view, speed is a factor here. I mean, this is a point in time when recruitment for the ADF has never been more important in terms of raw numbers. Yet with all this hanging over it, unresolved, if you like, to a degree, you know, it might be hard to convince some parents to support their kids in joining the ADF.

MINISTER KEOGH: I certainly accept that the issues that have been raised by the Royal Commission in not just in its Report, but in the evidence that is heard through the inquiry that it's been holding over the last three years, certainly raise issues that may cause people to pause if they're considering a career in the Defence Force. However, the Commissioners themselves, the chair of the Commission, Nick Kaldas, has also spoken about how the vast majority of people who serve in our Defence Force don't confront the issues that they've been tackling in their Report. They have successful careers in our Defence Force. They go on to lead successful careers in their civilian lives after their time in the Defence Force. That is the case historically and it is the case now. And so I think for people that are considering a career in the Defence Force, that is true, and that's what they should really have front in mind and the capacity that they would have to contribute to our national security and to operate in our national interest. But we cannot shy away from the issues either, and that's why this Report and its recommendations are so important.

ADSHEAD: It does seem extraordinary, though, that the Report comes down with the finding that you're 20 times more likely to die by suicide than in combat if you've been in the Defence Force. I mean, that's quite extraordinary. I was gobsmacked by that.

MINISTER KEOGH: That statistic, Gary, is really the statistic that led to the pressure on the last Government and why we supported the calls for this Royal Commission to be established, because we were seeing those statistics that the rate of suicide across Defence personnel and veterans was significantly higher than the rate that we saw across the general population. And that told us there was some serious problems that needed to be addressed and they needed to be addressed thoroughly. There needed to be a proper inquiry that looked at all of the evidence, but also listened to the people that are serving, that have served and the family members of those that have tragically taken their own lives, so that we could benefit from all of that through the inquiry and the Report that we've now received. And now we will, with some haste, work our way through these recommendations because we understand the urgency. And that urgency is pretty clear when you have the opportunity to read or listen to the evidence that's been presented to the Royal Commission.

ADSHEAD: And I think it's worth pointing out, of course, that the Commission also made specific comments around the fact that it's not sort of the external agencies, perhaps in this instance, that have perhaps let people down. It's what goes on with inside that culture, that tight knit culture that may not be seen or accessed unless you're inside it. So, in other words, not necessarily that, you know, the Department of Veterans’ Affairs isn't doing enough. It's just within. Again, you know, all of the years that we've talked about this, you would think that that culture was a lot better and a lot more targeted at people's wellbeing.

MINISTER KEOGH: Certainly a lot of the recommendations go to culture. That's absolutely the case. And they go to a lot of other things as well. One of the things that does give me some comfort is that things that we have been working on since we came into Government in the last two years with Defence and with DVA are things that are reflected in the recommendations. So, we need to sort of calibrate some of that work we've already been undertaking. But there's a strong alignment there and that gives us some pause and confidence, I guess, about being able to address these issues properly because we've already started down that pathway with a number of these. But we need to make sure that we are properly addressing now how those recommendations have formed up in the Report. But when the Interim Report was handed down in 2022, I made an apology in the Parliament to our serving personnel and ex serving personnel for the deficiencies of Defence and DVA in the cultural issues and the provision, or lack of provision of appropriate support, because we recognise there are serious problems here. It's why we supported having a Royal Commission. Now that we've got the Report, we understand the urgency of moving on these recommendations and we'll be reviewing them swiftly so that we can form our response properly.

ADSHEAD: Just finally, when I spoke to the Chair of the Commission, Nick Kaldas, yesterday, he said - he said that there are, you know, there'll be detail in the Report which will go to the fact that there are people inside Defence who should not be there because of what they've overseen or done nothing about or been party to, and that can be very high ranking officers. Is that something you're going to have to confront as a result of this Report?

MINISTER KEOGH: If that's the case, then it would have to be confronted. I'm not aware of the Report containing any references to any individuals in the Defence Force where that is a recommendation, or where commentary has been made to that effect. However, I think more broadly, where there are people, particularly in command or leadership roles, whether that's senior leadership or middle leadership or even lower level leadership, that are not operating consistently with Defence values, who are not operating in a way that is consistent with the culture we want to see in Defence, which is as much about war fighting as it is about making sure that our personnel are well looked after, then we need to make sure that those people are not behaving in those ways that are inappropriate. And if they can't see their way forward to continue in the Defence Force in an appropriate way, then that they may have to leave.

ADSHEAD: Can you give us an idea as to when you'd like, as a Government, to respond to this Commission of inquiry?

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, as I said, we certainly understand the urgency of responding to the recommendations that we've now received, but there is 122 of them and they are backed up by 3100 pages of information that go into some of the detail that sits behind those recommendations. And so we want to operate quickly in reviewing that and developing our response. I'm not going to set a specific date because there are issues that are external to the Federal Government. For example, a number of the recommendations touch upon and require coordination with the State Governments. So, we will need to work through that process in developing our response as well. But equally, we very much understand this can't be a Report that sits on a shelf. This is a Report that requires action.

ADSHEAD: Minister, thanks very much for giving us your time. Appreciate it.

MINISTER KEOGH: Thank you very much, Gary.

ADSHEAD: That's the Minister for Veterans’ Affairs, Matt Keogh.

END

Open Arms – Veterans & Families Counselling provides 24/7 free confidential crisis support for current and ex-serving ADF personnel and their families on 1800 011 046 or the Open Arms website. Safe Zone Support provides anonymous counselling on 1800 142 072. Defence All-Hours Support Line provides support for ADF personnel on 1800 628 036 or the Defence Health Portal. Defence Member and Family Helpline provides support for Defence families on 1800 624 608