Radio interview – 6PR Perth Radio - Mornings with Gary Adshead

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
6PR PERTH
MORNINGS WITH GARY ADSHEAD
THURSDAY, 5 SEPTEMBER 2024

SUBJECTS: Bill Shorten’s retirement, Western Australia representation in Labor Cabinet, Economic growth and inflation.

SPEAKER: Behind Party Lines.

[Excerpt]

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Tonight the Australian people have voted for change.

PETER DUTTON: The only way you can preserve peace is to prepare for war.

[End excerpt]

SPEAKER: In the left corner, Federal Labor Member for Burt, Matt Keogh, and in the right corner Federal Liberal Member for Canning, Andrew Hastie.

HOST, GARY ADSHEAD: And they both join me right now. Thanks very much for your time, gentlemen.

MINISTER FOR VETERANS’ AFFAIRS AND DEFENCE PERSONNEL, MATT KEOGH: Great to be with you, Gary.

SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE, ANDREW HASTIE: Good to be with you.

GARY ADSHEAD: Hey, guys, just before we start, I’ll play you a little bit more we’ve got of the big breaking story this morning that Bill Shorten has decided to retire from politics come February, as we understand it. Here’s a little bit more of what he had to say.

[Excerpt]

BILL SHORTEN: There’s an old saying which new MPs don’t realise, but they get told by old hands – it’s actually easier to get into parliament than to leave. I’m incredibly lucky of my 17 years. I’m incredibly grateful to the people who have sent me here six times. I have heard far more from the people of Australia than I can ever teach them.

JOURNALIST: Just now on your roles in the removal of Kevin Rudd in 2010 and Julia Gillard to a lesser extent in 2013, how do you reflect on those now? Were they – do you have regrets about that, or were they a necessary part of the process of politics?

BILL SHORTEN: Regrets? I might borrow from someone else: Regrets? I’ve had a few. But then again, too few to mention. I did what I had to do. But much more than this, I did it my way.

[End excerpt]

GARY ADSHEAD: There you go – regrets a few, but he did it his way. Just your words first up, Matt Keogh, reflecting on Bill Shorten’s decision. Why is he doing it?

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, I think what you’ve heard there Gary, while Bill will always be remembered for the zinger, look, Bill, as he mentioned, you know, long time in parliament and before that as a union leader nationally and in Victoria, and people will not forget the time, the advocacy and the vigil down in Tasmania after the collapse of the gold mine down there when he was a union leader as well.

I think Bill can hold his head pretty high having been the minister responsible for the creation of the NDIS, which is now such a critical part of our support systems in Australia for people with disability. And – but people reach their time, as we saw with Brendan O’Connor and Linda Burney earlier this year. And I wish him very well for the future. It’s great to be able to serve in parliament with him as when he was leader and in his role as a minister.

GARY ADSHEAD: Andrew Hastie, are you going to tell me he’s leaving a sinking ship?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, first of all, I’d just say Bill Shorten was always a Labor warrior, and I respected him for that because he fought hard. And I never made the mistake of thinking he was a pushover or he was soft. If you came up against him he fought hard. So I have respect for him as a politician and as a Labor Party leader and advocate. Number two, we shared a mutual friend in the late Senator Kimberley Kitching, and I’ve gotten to know Bill personally through that.

But finally, I do think he is also an astute judge of the times. He’s got a great political eye, and I think he’s leaving the Albanese Government while he can on the best and strongest possible terms, because he sees the downward trend and he’s playing it very smart. So good on him for landing a gig, because there’s a possibility next year that there’ll be other cabinet ministers landing up for gigs post politics if Anthony Albanese can’t turn the ship around.

GARY ADSHEAD: There you go. Well, I’d better let you respond to that, Matt.

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, you know, it’s great for Andrew to try and have a crack at the political spin there, but I think what’s important actually in what Andrew said is that Bill has respect across the parliament and has formed strong relationships with people and has been recognised as a strong advocate for the causes that he’s pursued. And I think that’s reflected in Andrew’s comments. And that, I think, is only a good thing and reflects well on the time that Bill’s had in parliament.

GARY ADSHEAD: Do you – I mean, have you got any concerns? Obviously, February he’ll leave, but there is, as the Prime Minister said, a lot of work to be done in relation to NDIS, in some way the wheels are turning slowly on stopping the amount of rorting that’s been going on there that even Bill Shorten admits.

MINISTER KEOGH: Yeah, well, look, Gary, absolutely the wheels were turning slowly because the legislative changes that we needed to fix these systems in the NDIS were being held up by the Liberals in the Senate. But a deal was done on that in the last sitting, which is great to be able to pass those legislative changes and now those improvements to the NDIS to make sure that there is better fraud controls, that we can bring integrity back to the NDIS system, the operations of it, to make sure that those people that have been rorting it are not able to do that and to bring some cost control to the NDIS so that it can continue to provide the very necessary services and supports for people with disability. It’s something we can now get on with in government now that that legislation has finally been able to pass the Senate. And Bill’s been working incredibly hard not just trying to get the Opposition to stop being the Opposition and actually support these important changes but also with the State Premiers to get their agreement to these very important changes as well.

GARY ADSHEAD: Has there been any – I’ll ask you the question: has there been any conflict in relation to the way that the Government have gone after the CFMEU for Bill Shorten? Obviously, you know, a son of the union background in the way that he is, has he expressed any concerns about that?

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, he certainly hasn’t to me. And, you know, there are many people in the Labor Party that have backgrounds in the union movement and have good relationships with the union movement, you know, across the full breadth of unions. And as we’ve seen reflected in the commentary by Sally McManus from the ACTU, which is the national peak body for the union movement, they very much understand the importance of making sure that the reputation of the union movement is protected, and that requires the swift action that the Government has taken in relation to the CFMEU nationally and that we have integrity in the system to ensure that unions are always doing their best to represent their members, which is what unions are all about.

GARY ADSHEAD: Another cabinet reshuffle, Matt Keogh. I’m sure Andrew Hastie will be pushing for you to get inside the inner cabinet as well. But another cabinet reshuffle. That’s quite soon, isn’t it, after the last one?

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, Bill’s going to be staying in the role until he leaves parliament, as the Prime Minister indicated. So that’s not happening any time imminently. But also, you know, it’s great to have the support of Andrew, but, you know, maybe his support is the one thing holding me back. Who knows?

GARY ADSHEAD: Andrew?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, sorry, Bill will depart in February, and whilst I’m ambitious for Matt Keogh, I’m also ambitious for Western Australia. And at the moment Western Australia is under represented in the Labor cabinet, and that’s got to change. And I think, you know, Matt’s the next cab off the rank, so I want to see a better deal for our state. Because I am worried that Albanese will cave with some of the State Premiers and change the GST formula. We obviously – we changed the GST formula through legislation to make sure that WA got its fair share. I’m just not worried – I’m worried that Anthony Albanese will cave to State Labor Premiers and, you know, by having Matt Keogh in the cabinet, that may well help WA’s position.

GARY ADSHEAD: Now I’m confused, because I thought it was Labor running the attack ads that suggested it’s Peter Dutton’s that’s going to be the one that changes our GST formula.

ANDREW HASTIE: They’re just masking the terrible economy they’re presiding over. The national accounts, you know, living standards are falling, real disposable income per capita has fallen by 8.7 per cent, productivity has collapsed, personal income taxes are 25 per cent are higher under Labor, and immigration – 1.4 million people added since Labor’s been in government, which explains the housing shortage, the congestion on our roads, infrastructure deficit with our hospitals and public infrastructure. This is why Labor is now attacking Peter Dutton over the GST.

But back to my point – yes, Matt Keogh should be in the cabinet, because then WA would have a better deal.

GARY ADSHEAD: All right, Matt Keogh, are those attack ads?

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, what do the attack ads – the ads that you’re taking about do, Gary? They just provide quotes from people talking about the arguments that Peter Dutton himself ran against the deal for WA on the GST. So all its doing is holding up the mirror to Peter Dutton so people can see just the views that he expressed when he was in that Government that made those changes. He was opposing it. And that’s the real risk that Western Australians are presented with when it comes to Peter Dutton, is that you’ve got a leader of the Liberal Party now – the leader of the Liberal Party now – who was opposed to the deal on GST, and that is a big risk.

GARY ADSHEAD: Was he, Andrew? Andrew, you’ve been with him a lot of. Has he ever said it to you?

ANDREW HASTIE: No, and that’s why I backed Peter Dutton in 2018. And I’ve backed him since. And just to quote him directly soon after becoming Opposition Leader – this is Peter Dutton – “We support the current arrangement for WA. I’m not going to change it. I’m not proposing a policy to change it. I believe that there’s an equity argument for WA.” So there you have it from the horse’s mouth. It’s not going to change. And you know what? I consider myself pretty influential, and I enjoy Peter’s ear. I love my state and I’m going to back it to the hilt. There won’t be a change under any Coalition Government.

GARY ADSHEAD: All right, there you go. Now that’s good –

MINISTER KEOGH: You’ve just got to rein in some of your colleagues like Senator Bragg, Andrew, and make sure that the whole team is actually aligned to this view. Because at the moment you’ve got people out there expressing different views right now on –

ANDREW HASTIE: I’m pretty effective. I’m pretty effective. So is Michaelia Cash and so are my colleagues.

GARY ADSHEAD: Yeah, Senator Bragg did go a bit weird there with that line about punishing the states if they don’t build enough houses by withholding some of their GST, didn’t he, Andrew?

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, I think Michaelia Cash explained that that’s not part of our policy and that he was wrong to say that, and we’ve moved on since.

GARY ADSHEAD: Okay. Well, that’s a good time to take a break. Stay right there. We might come back and talk a bit more about the economy. It’s flat – flat lining. Slowing, that’s for certain. Who’s fault is that? We’ll come back and talk about it after this.

[Ad Break]

SPEAKER: Behind Party Lines. In the left corner, Federal Labor member for Burt, Matt Keogh, and in the right corner Federal Liberal member for Canning, Andrew Hastie.

GARY ADSHEAD: Okay, economic growth has definitely slumped, chaps. Who’s to blame for that, Matt Keogh? I’ve just spoken to a professor of economics that says that it’s the Federal Treasurer’s fault and that’s the end of it and he’s got to stop spinning about it.

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, I mean, it’s pretty clear that what we’ve seen here, what’s been buffeting the Australian economy, is a combination of external factors – and we can see that reflected in the oil price going up and down all over the shop – but also the impact of interest rates. You know, you increase interest rates, economies slow down. That’s exactly what you’d expect to happen. That’s literally why the Reserve Bank does it, and that’s what we’ve seen occur.

What you’ve seen from Government, though, has been, one, it is Government that is actually contributing to economic growth, so that’s important. But also is Government that has taken the steps to make sure that the real world impact for people, mum and dads out there trying to pay mortgages are also getting tax cuts with tax cuts being delivered to every taxpayer. So getting that energy bill relief that they’re all receiving on their energy bills right now.

So we’ve made sure that in our budget that we have addressed making sure that we’re looking after people with their cost of living pressures, which is very real, especially when you’ve got interest rates having that impact on mortgages and also seeing how global events are affecting the Australian economy, but also making sure that we’re seeing growth occur in the economy. If it want for what the Government’s doing, if it wasn’t for the approach we took in our budget you wouldn’t have seen any growth at all. And that was very clear in the national accounts that were handed down yesterday.

GARY ADSHEAD: What do you think, Andrew?

ANDREW HASTIE: Look, I think the big challenge that is facing the Government is inflation, and they are refusing to fight it. In fact, they’re accelerating inflation, and that’s what they’ve done by adding $315 billion of additional commonwealth spending since they’ve been elected. And inflation is a tax on everyone. It’s a tax on mums and dads, seniors, small businesses, families through groceries, through their fuel costs, through their power builds and through their interest rate hikes that they’ve experienced – 12 over the last two years or so. So inflation is the big problem here.

And productivity has also collapsed under this Government. So that’s what people are worried about, and that’s what this Government isn’t focused on – cost of living. Instead, you’ve got Jim Chalmers opening up a war with the RBA Governor and, you know, trying to deflect and suggesting that it’s all the fault of the RBA. Well, their job is monetary policy, but what we need to see from this Government is less spending because they’re driving inflation through reckless fiscal management of our accounts. And that’s what we saw yesterday.

MINISTER KEOGH: Gary, just listen to what Andrew is saying. The national accounts literally showed that it’s Government spending that is keeping the economy growing. Andrew has just called for it to be cut. The Reserve Bank itself acknowledged that our budget was not inflationary because of measures like the way in which we changed the tax cuts being delivered and because we delivered energy bill relief. He talks about over $300 billion. Well, what is that made up of? Well, it’s the indexation of pensions that go to our pensioners. It’s the money that is now flowing to our veterans in support and benefits that wasn’t flowing under the last Government because they had a 42,000 claim backlog. It’s the money being spent on converting all of those labour hire workers to being public servants. That’s actually cheaper to have them as public servants than to rely on labour hire. But it’s also what’s making sure that people get access to veteran payments, to the pension, to unemployment benefits. All of these things. Andrew talks about that, “Oh, we’re spending $300 billion.” What is he proposing to cut out of that? Is he going to cut the pension? Like, that’s outrageous.

ANDREW HASTIE: As if that’s what we’re suggesting, Matt. As if that’s what we’re suggesting.

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, how would we know, because you haven’t delivered any policy.

ANDREW HASTIE: Well, Matt also forgot the, you know, almost half a billion dollars wasted on a divisive referendum last year, which shows you everything you need to know about Anthony Albanese and his priorities –

MINISTER KEOGH: Hardly inflationary.

MINISTER KEOGH: – dividing Australians and not focusing on the real issue, which is cost of living.

GARY ADSHEAD: The problem is, I think, for the Government is that no matter what you say, Matt, and no matter what the Treasurer says, you know, you guys have had a trade and royalties boom. You’ve had rivers of gold coming in, and Australians are going to say that they’re worse off under your Government regardless of any of that. There doesn’t seem to be anything to show for it, Matt.

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, Andrew’s concerned about Government spending. Over 80 per cent of that uplift in increased royalty revenues has gone into paying down their debt. It is what has delivered two budget surpluses under a Labor Government. No surpluses or deficits under the last Liberal Government. Two actual surpluses under our government, and reduced deficits going forward because we’ve actually contributed to paying down that massive debt that was racked up under their Government.

So, when it comes to sound economic management, we’ve paid down debt, we’ve delivered tax cuts to every taxpayer, we’re helping push down inflation by giving energy bill rebates to every household and small business in Australia, and that’s us being constrained yet also delivering the growth in the economy. That growth that was announced yesterday in the national accounts all came from what the Government is doing. Andrew’s proposition is that we should go into recession. And, of course, politically he wants that.

ANDREW HASTIE: No, not at all.

MINISTER KEOGH: He wants that politically. People shouldn’t –

ANDREW HASTIE: No, not at all.

GARY ADSHEAD: Do you want a recession, Andrew? A recession we have to have, Andrew?

ANDREW HASTIE: No, I want a strong, competitive Australia in an increasingly dangerous world. That’s what I want. And what we’re seeing this Government do is actually making us less productive, less competitive and weaker. And that’s why we’re calling on the Government to manage its accounts.

Working families and small businesses across this country are having to look closely at their finances and make adjustments. We’re asking that the Government does the same because they’re driving this inflation. And unlike other economy thanks are comparable around the world, whether it be the US, UK, Germany, Japan, they are not tackling inflation. They’ve asked the Reserve Bank to do all the heavy lifting, and then when the Reserve Bank does it through interest rate rises, they complain. Something has got to change. And we need this Government focused on people and the cost of living, because it's hurting a lot of Australians.

GARY ADSHEAD: All right. Okay. Matt Keogh, Andrew Hastie, we’re pressed for time. I appreciate you joining us – as always. We’ll speak again soon. Thanks very much.

MINISTER KEOGH: Thanks, Gary.

ANDREW HASTIE: Thank you.

MINISTER KEOGH: And I encourage anyone in Perth to go down and see the Legacy stall in the mall to support Legacy WA with Legacy Week.

GARY ADSHEAD: Good cause. A very good cause. I think you both agree on that. It’s 4 minutes to 10.

END

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