Radio Interview - 6PR Perth - Thursday, 15 June 2023

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
6PR PERTH
MORNINGS WITH GARY ADSHEAD
THURSDAY, 15 JUNE 2023

HOST, GARY ADSHEAD: Okay. Now, we know that there's been a delay to the investigation or the first investigation into Ben Roberts Smith by the Federal Police has been shelved because of issues, so we understand that. So that's going to go on for quite a while.

Can I just ask you both, given your portfolios, Matt, and your background, Andrew Hastie, where do you stand on Ben Roberts Smith being stripped of his Victoria Cross?

MINISTER FOR VETERANS’ AFFAIRS AND DEFENCE PERSONNEL, MATT KEOGH: Well, there's still ongoing issues in respect of that matter, so it's not really a question that's live at the moment.

GARY ADSHEAD: Andrew?

SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE, ANDREW HASTIE: There's a process, and there are processes ongoing, so I think everyone is entitled to procedural fairness and it's not a live discussion at the moment.

GARY ADSHEAD: And are you saying it's not a live discussion because the defamation matter and what came from that, and the judgment is not enough to move on his Victoria Cross or other awards that he won for gallantry?

ANDREW HASTIE: I think it is a matter for the Government. Matt has the purview of the Australian War Memorial, so Matt.

MATT KEOGH: Look, I mean there is a judgment there, as Mr Roberts Smith indicated yesterday, they're considering an appeal, so that's not even the end of that. A civil matter at this stage, the Government's not involved in that civil matter, and I think it's important that whatever the processes are that relate to that or any of the other processes surrounding those activities in Afghanistan, that have arisen from the Brereton Report, and those processes take their course, and there's no point sort of speculating about where any of that goes –

GARY ADSHEAD: So in other words, until you get a if there's no appeal though by the Ben Roberts Smith camp, would the context of what's there for Ben Roberts Smith at the Memorial be looked at?

MATT KEOGH: Well, they're two yeah, they're different that's two different things. So in terms of what's at the Memorial, what the Memorial has determined, and it's independent of Government, is that it is going to add some contextualisation information to go with what is on display there so that there's some clear context for people who view what occurs there.

And the view that they have taken is that it's not just about displaying and they've been very clear with all the different conflicts that they have material on display there, it's not just about displaying things that may glorify service or they're all about positive things, it's about providing an accurate portrayal. So they're adding some contextual information to the things that are on display in the galleries at the Memorial, and that's a decision that they've taken because they are an independent organisation, as is appropriate. I as the Minister don't have curatorial control of those.

In terms of the other things you mentioned before, there's ongoing processes at the moment and I don't think it's helpful for anybody to speculate on hypotheticals.

GARY ADSHEAD: All right. I'll tell you why I asked you, Andrew, and that's because you know full well that there's already been moves to bring back medals from other service people that went to Afghanistan, and from what I know of those particular members of the Special Forces or former members of the Special Forces, there's nothing by way of a judgment like what we've just seen against Ben Roberts Smith. So I don't know how he could not be asked to return his medals as well. That's what I'm saying.

ANDREW HASTIE: You're right. And Matt would know more about this than I, and I don't think he's able to comment, but as I understand it there's a process under way through the Deputy Prime Minister's office, and some of those people caught up in it are actually former colleagues and friends of mine, people I respect, and it's not about criminal liability, it's about command accountability.

Now, people are entitled to their view on that process, but far be it for me to undermine procedural fairness. I want to make sure that that principle is upheld, and so I don't want to weigh in on that for their sake, but certainly this is something we all have to grapple with.

You know I served there in 2013 as a Captain, I had a number of incidents occur during my time there. Command accountability is something we all have to grapple with, from the Captains, to the Majors, to the Half Colonels, all the way to the Generals, and indeed all the way back to the Parliament itself, and I've made this point a number of times; I don't think Parliament exercised its duty of accountability during the Afghan war, and I think that's a thing that we need to fix going forward, and I think a statutory Defence committee which can ask hard questions of Generals in a classified or protected environment is really, really important. Because if we have troops in the field fighting, if we're losing people in the field, the Australian people deserve their Parliament to be asking the hard questions, making sure the strategy and operations are being conducted in a good and a way that serves our national interest.

ENDS

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