Radio Interview - ABC RN Breakfast with Steve Cananne

E&OE TRANSCRIPT 
ABC RADIO NATIONAL
BREAKFAST WITH STEVE CANANNE
TUESDAY, 5 NOVEMBER 2024

SUBJECTS: Defence Workforce Plan; Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide.

STEVE CANANNE, HOST: Recruitment and retention have posed a significant challenge for the Australian Defence Force. To counter this, the Federal Government has been offering Defence Force personnel $50,000 one off bonus in exchange for an additional three years of service. And today the Government has announced a further $600 million to extend and expand its recruitment and retention package. Matt Keogh is the Minister for Veterans’ Affairs and Defence Personnel and he joins us now. Welcome back to Radio National Breakfast.

MINISTER FOR VETERANS’ AFFAIRS AND DEFENCE PERSONNEL, MATT KEOGH: Good morning. Great to be with you.

CANANNE: You've decided to extend the continuation bonus for permanent members of the ADF. Why do you need to provide bonuses to stop them leaving?

MINISTER KEOGH: So look, it's a very competitive environment at the moment. I think everyone knows we've got one of the lowest levels of unemployment that we've seen in our country. And so the remuneration package, the value package, is an important part of how we encourage people to stay in our Defence Force. But it's not just about that. There is a whole range of other measures that we have been applying to improve the terms of service for people in our Defence Force, from healthcare to study opportunities to improving housing flexibility. But this is an important measure and we introduced it at the middle of last year and we've seen it be successful. That's the important thing. The continuation bonus has seen people stay in our Defence Force after their initial service obligation period. And so we are extending that programme, that pilot, given its success, but we're also expanding it so that people who are in the Defence Force who have served around seven to nine years will be able to sign on for an additional three years also and they'll be able to get a continuation bonus in those circumstances -

CANANNE: All right -

MINISTER KEOGH: And that's really important because we need to extend the average time that people stay in our Defence Force.

CANANNE: Earlier in the year, Defence officials confirmed the military had a workforce shortage of about 7%. Has that improved since the original bonus was rolled out?

MINISTER KEOGH: So we've seen retention or we've seen the take up of the bonus at around 80% and even more people have stayed in. Importantly, we've now got retention rates increasing and the separation rate's back down to 9%, which is the long term historical average. It had been considerably higher when we came into government and we've seen that fall from the initiatives and measures that we've introduced and that's a good thing. But we also need to see more people joining the Defence Force and we need to see people staying in for longer.

CANANNE: Defence has announced it's abandoning a contract for $7 billion worth of military satellite communications systems. And this was to provide high level protection against cyber and electronic warfare attacks. Why would you cancel that contract just 18 months after giving the project the green light?

MINISTER KEOGH: So that was a programme that commenced nearly a decade ago and the reality is technology has changed and improved and we do need to make sure that our Defence Force has access to the most up to date technology and the most resilient technology, and that's important. And so the programme that you've just referred to involved a small number of satellites. That does mean it had a vulnerability. We're looking at moving to more of a mesh type arrangement of satellites which provides greater resilience with a more up to date technology and we'll be able to deliver that technology faster as well.

CANANNE: So are you saying that the technology has improved out of sight in the 18 month period since that project was originally greenlit?

MINISTER KEOGH: So certainly we've seen that technology become available and it's been able to be assessed. And I think it's important when we are evolving our Defence Force to make sure that we've got the capabilities we need in the modern environment and we know we are in the most set of complex strategic circumstances we've confronted since the Second World War. You don't want to have a government doubling down on decisions when there are better technologies that become available. And that's what we're going to be pursuing.

CANANNE: On Radio National Breakfast it’s 20 minutes to eight and we're talking to Matt Keogh, the Minister for Veterans’ Affairs and Defence Personnel. This decision has been labelled disgraceful by the Opposition. Shadow Defence Minister Andrew Hastie says the cancellation of the project devastates our capabilities in strategic overwatch. What's your response to that?

MINISTER KEOGH: Look, I like Andrew a lot, but unfortunately he seems to be very much invested in the past sometimes when it comes to holding onto projects and technologies. And what I think our Defence Force need and what we want to deliver as a government are the most up to date capabilities that provide the technology and also the resilience that we require in a modern warfighting environment. That's what we are pursuing. And I think that's what not just our Defence Force, but what the Australian public expect of governments prudently managing the Defence Force and the Defence budget. Where better technology comes along, and you're able to adopt that, then that's what we should be doing and that's what we're doing here.

CANANNE: Is there a cost to taxpayers for cancelling this contract with Lockheed Martin?

MINISTER KEOGH: Obviously money has been expended on that project to date and that's part of moving to a new technology. Better to make these decisions when you can make them than to continue to spend money on projects to change them later. And so that's the decision that's been taken at this point. You know, there is this thing called the sunk cost fallacy. We're making sure that we're actually investing in the technology that's required.

CANANNE: You're also announcing today that 14 rigid hull boats will be the latest gift from Australia to Ukraine. What will they be used for?

MINISTER KEOGH: So they'll be used for defence obviously in the coastal environment around Ukraine. That's something that they've sought based on the environment they're confronting. And we've certainly seen a lot of offshore activity in the conduct of the conflict in Ukraine and we're happy to support them with the provision of those vessels. It's a contribution that meets the need that they've sought. And of course it's in addition to the military and non-military assistance that we've already provided, we've provided some $1.3 billion of military assistance to Ukraine and a total of around $1.5 billion of overall assistance.

CANANNE: The Army is also in the process of retiring 22 armed Tiger helicopters. Ukraine has asked if they can have them. Where's that at? And will you be making the case within government to send those retired helicopters to Ukraine?

MINISTER KEOGH: So we consider the request that Ukraine make to government on an ongoing basis and we consider those requests in the scope of what we have available to support Ukraine and we'll make any decisions like the one that we've announced today about the vessels that are being provided in due course. But we don't foreshadow any decisions.

CANANNE: But you're listening carefully to Ukraine about what they want?

MINISTER KEOGH: We are always listening to Ukraine and engaging with them about what their requirements and what they are seeking and engaging with our international partners as well around how the assistance that Ukraine is seeking can be best provided.

CANANNE: Ukraine is also asking for more Bushmasters and we know that they have been saving lives on the front lines of Ukrainian soldiers in particularly in eastern Ukraine. And Ukraine is under incredible pressure at the moment, particularly around Pokrovsk. Is that is also something that the Government will be looking at is rolling out more Bushmasters to save more lives for Ukrainian soldiers?

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, the Bushmasters are an amazing Australian technology, used not just by Australia, but a number of countries around the world. And we've been very happy to provide Ukraine with a number of those Bushmasters to assist them in their efforts against Russia. And they've been proven time and time again to be very helpful. As I just said, with all of the requests we receive from Ukraine, we consider them and make decisions and announce those as those decisions are made. And we'll always consider the requests that they make.

CANANNE: Ok. The last time you came on the programme, we discussed some of the final recommendations of the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide. The Commission found that numerous institutional drivers within Defence and the Department of Veterans’ Affairs had contributed to the persistently high rates of suicide among serving and ex-serving ADF members. Does that relate to recruitment as well that we talked about at the top of this interview that people feel like serving the ADF, they're still just not being looked after?

MINISTER KEOGH: There's certainly some that have a concern about the issues that were canvassed by the Royal Commission and the content of the Royal Commission's Interim and Final Report in relation to those issues. And we understand that. And in the Workforce Plan that we released today, we also talk about the need to work on culture within the Defence Force and improve the wellbeing of our personnel. And that's very important. And we are already undertaking work in that regard. And of course, we are in the process of reviewing all of the recommendations of the Royal Commission to provide a response by the end of the year to those recommendations, because it's very important work that the Royal Commission has undertaken. But even the Chair of the Royal Commission himself acknowledged and pointed out that the experiences that the Royal Commission canvassed and that some people have had that have been the content of the work of the Royal Commission is not the experience of the vast majority of people in our Defence Force. The vast majority of people in our Defence Force have successful careers during their Defence Force service, and also following their Defence Force services, they reintegrate into civilian life as well. And that is a very important message for people to understand. And indeed, we have been seeing an increase in applications. Applications are up by something like 10% to the Defence Force at the moment, and that's consistent with what we need to achieve in terms of growing our Defence Force. But it also reflects the broader confidence and support for our Defence Force from the Australian public.

CANANNE: Matt Keogh we’ll have to leave it there, but thank you for your time this morning.

MINISTER KEOGH: Been great to be with you. Thanks, Steven.

END

Open Arms – Veterans & Families Counselling provides 24/7 free confidential crisis support for current and ex-serving ADF personnel and their families on 1800 011 046 or the Open Arms website. Safe Zone Support provides anonymous counselling on 1800 142 072. Defence All-Hours Support Line provides support for ADF personnel on 1800 628 036 or the Defence Health Portal. Defence Member and Family Helpline provides support for Defence families on 1800 624 608.