Radio Interview - 6PR Perth Radio Mornings with Gary Adshead

E&OE TRANSCRIPT 
6PR PERTH RADIO 
MORNINGS WITH GARY ADSHEAD 
THURSDAY, 28 November 2024

SUBJECTS: Cost of Living; Monthly Inflation Figures; Nature Positive Legislation; Liberals Voting Against Student Caps; WA State Liberal Party Leadership Contest.

GARY ADSHEAD, HOST: And they join us live from Canberra. Thanks very much for your time, guys.

MINISTER FOR VETERANS' AFFAIRS AND DEFENCE PERSONNEL, MATT KEOGH: Great to be with you, Gary.

SHADOW MINISTER FOR DEFENCE, ANDREW HASTIE: Good morning, Gary. Good morning, Perth.

ADSHEAD: Yes, and of course things were getting pretty heated over there, particularly in the Senate. I bet you're glad you're not in the Senate. But just to you, first up, Matt Keogh. After the last federal election, Tanya Plibersek, the Federal Environment Minister, said that the public clearly voted for the public - for the environment. Why has Anthony Albanese ditched the Nature Positive Legislation?

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, this is the second tranche of Nature Positive Legislation, so we've already done a lot of work when it comes to legislating to protect the environment and in relation to climate change as well. And you saw the statement from Chris Bowen earlier today showing that we're on the pathway that we need to be on to reduce climate emissions, and that's very important. In terms of the legislation that we've been trying to get through the Parliament in relation to Nature Positive at the moment, that was about establishing a federal environmental regulator. There hasn't been one before, but as many people know, there are federal environmental laws and we wanted to make sure that those laws operate properly to protect the environment, but also in a way that is more streamlined in working together with state environmental protection laws and regulations so that we get the protections, but we also get them working properly with business so that they're not creating undue red tape. That's what we were trying to do with this legislation. In trying to negotiate that through the Senate, we've had no deal from the Opposition. We were working with the crossbench and no deal's been able to be done there. And of course we're interested in making sure that this is done right to protect the environment, but also operate properly to support business as well. That has not been able to be achieved and that's why that legislation's not going through at the end of this year.

ADSHEAD: But wasn't it close to a deal being done with the Greens and Labor?

MINISTER KEOGH: Certainly discussions were well advanced. But when the deal can't be made, the deal can't be made. And so, you know, we want to make sure that we deliver the best legislation for the environment, but that also works together in the interests of our economy as well. And that's particularly important for places like Western Australia, where federal environmental regulation has a big impact on our major projects, because it really only applies to major projects like resources projects in Western Australia, but across the country. And that's what we were trying to deliver through the creation of an EPA, but where we couldn't reach a deal. And what was really unfortunate about this, Gary, is when we started down this pathway, we tried to work with the Opposition because we knew there would be these problems of having to work with the crossbench to get to a good outcome. But they didn't play ball. And that was well criticised by organisations like CME and the Minerals Council and CCI at the time. We've tried to progress this. We haven't been able to get to a position that we're comfortable with, and so that's not on the table for this final sitting day in Parliament.

ADSHEAD: How do you see it, Andrew?

HASTIE: Well, Gary, we're proud to have opposed this legislation because this would have loosed green radicals on the national economy, but particularly in Western Australia, it would have been a break on our productivity and Australians would have seen their living standards further decline. So, we thought it best to not support this bill, which is why we haven't supported. Now, what we also see is a chasm in the Albanese Government between Tanya Plibersek, who's quarterbacking this legislation, and the Prime Minister. Now, Roger Cook called up the Prime Minister and said, hey, this EPA will be a gut punch to the WA economy. It'll threaten jobs and all the rest of it. And Anthony Albanese has rolled Tanya Plibersek, who was negotiating with the Greens. So, this just gives you a sense of what Labor really wants to do with the country, and that's take it backwards, not forwards. And it also gives you a sense of what it will look like with a minority government. If Labor has to form government with the Greens, it's a huge sovereign risk for our country because we want to attract investment. And these laws will make it prohibitively difficult for businesses to invest in Australia, particularly the resources sector.

ADSHEAD: It is a gut punch to Tanya Plibersek, isn't it, Matt?

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, we've been trying to negotiate this legislation through and the issues that Andrew's raised there, are why we're not proceeding with legislation because we didn't want to do a deal with that required the Greens on things that we weren't prepared to accept. And as close as you might get on being able to conduct those negotiations and getting to a point that is acceptable, ultimately it wasn't an acceptable position and so we're not proceeding with it.

ADSHEAD: It seems extraordinary though, doesn't it? You know, people listening to this who think so much emphasis has been put on the environment and how we need to go about things differently and we can't even get to a point where you can bring in a federal Environmental Protection Office.

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, yeah, it's incredibly disappointing that that support's not been there, despite the very strong view from Australians that they want to see a national regulator for the environment. We have all these national environmental laws. We want it to operate properly to protect the environment, but also not create - making life more difficult for proponents. We want it to be able to operate in a streamlined way with the state regulators as well. That's what we were trying to achieve here. And as I said before, this is tranche two of the Nature Positive legislation. We've already had the first tranche go through and we've done a number of other pieces of legislation around climate change more broadly as well. So, we are responding to the very real need to improve our environmental regulation in this country, which is what people want to see. But it's disappointing that the Opposition have not been able to get to a position where they could support it. And the Greens continue to insist on things that were not something that was acceptable to the Government.

ADSHEAD: Alright. But at the end of the day, the political reality is that your Government wouldn't want to have been seen doing a deal with the Greens that got this through, because the backlash from the mining industry and everything else that that represents would have been huge, wouldn't it. So, politically it was fraught.

MINISTER KEOGH: I think what you're trying to say, Gary, is that we're a government doing a good job of governing in the interests of Australians, both for our environment and for our economy, and where it's not possible to do - to achieve those outcomes, we're not going to proceed with legislation that would be detrimental.

ADSHEAD: All right. And did Roger Cook play a role in that? Because it seems to be being claimed that he met with or spoke to the Prime Minister and said, for God's sake, don't go down this path.

MINISTER KEOGH: You know, I'm not aware of any private conversations that have been had between leaders or others. But of course, in the development and the engagement of this legislation, we've engaged with industry. We've engaged with state governments, including the Western Australian State Government, as you would expect, all the way through.

HASTIE: Gary, I think the point is, though, for a country like Australia, which produces about 1.1% of the world's emissions, compared to China, which is trending up towards 35%, we're also one of the cleanest jurisdictions in the world when it comes to mining and resources and manufacturing. And so Australians are going backwards and they feel it. And when they see the Government more worried about the environment and climate change policies than cost of living and helping them balance their family budgets and help them get pay increases and improve their living standards, they have the right to ask questions about the Government's priorities. And I think it's evidently clear that this is a government with green instincts, and I don't think they're going to get our country moving, which is what we need to do.

MINISTER KEOGH: I'm very happy to have Andrew's support on that, because what we've done here is not proceed with legislation that could have been detrimental because of where the Greens wanted to take it. But what we have been doing, despite the Opposition from the Liberal Party, is passing legislation that's been helping with cost of living. We've provided tax cuts to every taxpayer. We've provided rebates on energy bill bills, things that the Liberal Party voted against. We've provided cheaper childcare, we're reducing student debt for HECS students and for TAFE students. We've delivered cheaper medicines, we've made reforms to the energy market to deliver to keep downward pressure on energy prices. And we've seen inflation move from having a six in front of it down to having a two in front of it. It's now a third of what it was under the previous government. So, as Andrew highlights, the people's priorities are on cost of living issues, and they are the things we've been addressing, despite the fact, despite the fact that the Liberal Party has voted against these things, these changes that have been helping people, helping the hip pocket where people have been doing it tough.

ADSHEAD: You've got to win that argument, though, don't you? Going into the election, according to polling at the moment, you know, people just don't accept that they're any better off living under an Albanese government.

HASTIE: And Gary, core inflation is 3.5%. It's some of the highest in the developed world. And in fact, other countries are getting rate cuts. And speaking of banks, last week they're all pricing in for a May cut maybe. People are going to be hurting for a lot longer. And it's because this government hasn't focused on cost of living and economic growth and delivering for the Australian people.

MINISTER KEOGH: Andrew's still got to work on understanding macroeconomics here. Oh, that rate of inflation is a lot lower than it was under your government. And those impacts that we're seeing are global inflationary impacts, and you know that. We have been dealing with the inflationary pressures that we've seen in Australia. And that's why inflation has fallen so significantly under our government.

HASTIE: No, you've added $315 billion to the Budget, and that is driving inflation. Immigration is driving inflation, you've added 1.5 billion people to the economy.

MINISTER KEOGH: You just opposed our legislation to reduce immigration Andrew. That's you doing that.

HASTIE: Well, Gary, look, I'll talk offline to Professor Keogh about his economics.

ADSHEAD: You do that.

HASTIE: We'll save the rest of the population, though.

ADSHEAD: We'll take a break. We'll take a call from Phil after this. Standby. It's 10:45.

[Ad break]

ADSHEAD: And they're sitting right next to each other in our Canberra studio and getting on fantastically. Phil's on the line. G'day, Phil.

CALLER, PHIL: Yes, g'day. All those points the member for the Labor Party just outlined has increased the price of living and inflation for every Australian except the tax cuts. So, they increase the wages so then the products go up and the employees have to charge more to cover the wage costs. So, everything they've outlined, the electricity rebates have increased inflation, everything. So, where are we? We're still back to where we started. We're still making less, but everything's costing more. The Labor is the worst government we could ever have.

ADSHEAD: All right, well, yep, fair enough. There you go, Matt.

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, actually the rebates on energy had a significant impact on decreasing inflation across Australia, even more so in places like Western Australia and Queensland where the state government's also provided rebates. So, $700 off electricity bills for Western Australians between the Cook Government and the Albanese Government has had a significant impact in helping people pay their bills. And certainly that's the feedback I get on the ground in my community. But it's also, and the RBA has acknowledged this, has had a direct impact on lowering inflation as well.

ADSHEAD: Alright, now can I just ask you, I know it's slightly state, but I do want to know whether you think, Andrew Hastie, that the shenanigans within the State Liberal Party will affect your chances at the coming federal election in any way. And of course, I'm talking about a quite bizarre sort of attempt to put Basil Zempilas up as the election campaign leader, which of course failed dismally when it went to the party room.

HASTIE: Well, Gary, I've got a great relationship with Libby Mettam. She lives down our way. She understands regional Western Australia. We're working very closely with her to deliver a new hospital at the Peel Health Campus for Mandurah and the surrounding areas of the Peel region. We've got great candidates in Owen Mulder for Dawesville. We've got a great candidate in David Bolt, the seat of Murray-Wellington. Mark Jones for Secret Harbour. We're looking for a candidate for Mandurah at the moment and we can all work very closely with Libby. And I think Libby understands the regional and outer metro parts of Perth. Of course, I thought the attempt earlier in this week was reckless, but I think it demonstrated that she's got a bit of steel. I actually texted her, I said to her, look, you're challenged. You've got to fight through and if you do, you'll show everyone that you have the metal to lead. And I think that's what occurred.

ADSHEAD: It was a Federal Liberal candidate that went and sat with her and said, you better have a look at this polling cause you're in big trouble and you might need to think about stepping aside. That was Ben Small.

HASTIE: Yeah look, I don't know what happened there. I wasn't involved, obviously, because I get on well with Libby and I'm looking forward to working with her and winning seats back and hopefully a Liberal government.

ADSHEAD: So, in other words, you think that however it was brought on, you said reckless. But does it do damage to a already troubled State Liberal Party trying to get numbers back at the 2025 State Election, let alone what's going to happen federally? You must be very annoyed by that.

HASTIE: Look, I want to win. I'm competitive. I'm focused on what I can control. And we've got some great candidates in the Peel region who are fighting for a new hospital. We've been overlooked for eight years by Labor. Eight years. They've promised $152 million for the Peel Health Campus. We've not seen a cent. We need more schools, we need more houses. These are things that people care about. They don't care about leadership shenanigans. So, as I said, Libby's demonstrated that she's tough. She stared down the challenge and I think she's demonstrated that she's good to go. So, we're backing her and we're just focusing on what we can do which is deliver for our region in the Peel region.

ADSHEAD: Sorry. Now from your point of view though, Matt Keogh, you've seen some things in terms of politics and the way things work. What did you make of that one?

MINISTER KEOGH: Well, there's the old adage that disunity is death and we've seen that in the Liberal Party in Western Australia over the last few days. But I think probably most troubling is that the person who moved the motion against Libby in the party room is their Shadow Treasurer and he lost nine-one. If the Shadow Treasurer can't do the numbers, they're obviously not fit for government.

ADSHEAD: Nice line.

HASTIE: He definitely workshopped that.

ADSHEAD: No, no, it was good though.

HASTIE: And he did it in the mirror too this morning.

ADSHEAD: Oh, I don't know about that, but I thought.

MINISTER KEOGH: Well I don't know how Andrew knows that.

HASTIE: Trust me mate, I'm not watching you that closely. I probably should be though.

ADSHEAD: But in terms of -

MINISTER KEOGH: We're just getting ready for question time, Gary, we just got to, you know, get the repartee ready for, you know.

ADSHEAD: Fair enough.

HASTIE: But I mean this is the last hit out with Gary so we're having fun.

ADSHEAD: But this, but this is -

MINISTER KEOGH: On this channel.

ADSHEAD: But, but, but this is why, this is why the public, you guys understand, this is why the public remain highly cynical. Never mind what's gone on in the Senate in terms of Payman and Hanson in the last 24 hours. But this is why we remain highly cynical of politicians and that you are shown in some ways with great disdain because of things like what happened this week where you've got clearly a plan being hatched and it just failed dismally and all it's done is disrupt the Liberal Party in WA even more.

HASTIE: I think you're right, Gary. I think people are right to be cynical about politics, especially what they've seen in the Senate this week with independents like Lidia Thorpe and Senator Payman and others carrying on. It's very undignified. This is an office which only very few Australians get to hold and represent their respective constituencies and people expect good character, serious minded policymaking and a level of decorum and they're not seeing that in the Senate and I think they're right to be disappointed. Like I said, Gary, Matt and I, we can only control our own behaviour and I want my kids to be proud of my time in Parliament. I know Matt feels the same way.

ADSHEAD: Well, alright guys, now you're probably right, that might be the last hit out with me. It's been a really good experience though doing it, you know, every sort of couple of weeks to get your insight into what's going on and of course let our listeners hear what is being said from both sides of the Chamber. Thanks very much. I hope you have a great Christmas and a break. When it actually comes to a break. I don't know about the Senators. They'll hang on. What's that?

MINISTER KEOGH: That was my reminder for Question Time, Gary, because I'd hate to miss it.

ADSHEAD: Get into Question time. Thanks very much for being part of it.

MINISTER KEOGH: Thank you Gary. It's been great being with you. I'm sure Andrew has enjoyed it as well. And a Merry Christmas to all the listeners out there and thanks for putting up with us every couple of weeks.

ADSHEAD: No problem.

HASTIE: Here here, I agree with Matt. Thank you Gary.

ADSHEAD: Good on you guys. Thanks for that. That's Matt Keogh and Andrew Hastie there. They gotta go to Question time. I gotta go to a break. It's four minutes to 11.

END

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